“We Are Jews, We Cannot Commit Such Acts”
This is going to be a long post. I want to tell you a story from the 1948 Israeli War of Independence. It’s about a clash between my friend Lou Lenart and Yitzhak Rabin, who would go on to become prime minister of Israel and a great champion of peace—before he was assassinated by another Israeli on November 4, 1995.
First, a little about Lou. He was a Jew (he died a few years ago in Israel at age 93), born in Hungary in 1921; the family emigrated to the States when he was a boy. Lou enlisted in the Marine Corps at the start of WWII, eventually becoming a fighter pilot in the Pacific.
When Israel declared its independence on May 14, 1948, the country was immediately invaded by the armed forces of three Arab states—Egypt, Syria, and Jordan—whose intention was to destroy the Jewish state before it could be born.
Lou got himself to Israel, volunteering as a pilot. He led the four-plane mission (the Israel Air Force only had four planes, total, at the time) that stopped an armored Egyptian column eleven miles south of Tel Aviv, literally saving the infant state of Israel.
Not long after, Lou was made Operations Officer for the Israel Air Force. The IAF had upped its complement by then to about a dozen planes. Lou’s post was basically him, a driver, a radio, and a jeep. Rabin, a rising young captain, was the Operations Officer for the Army.
Fighting the Egyptian army in the Negev, the air force’s only bomber (with a crew of three) was shot down.
Here’s the story of what happened then, as Lou told it to me for my book, The Lion’s Gate. What follows is in Lou’s voice (my condensed version):
The ground fight was just starting. Days passed before we could assemble a force and search for the aircraft.
The plane had crashed on the shore alongside the Arab village of Ishdud. We went in with six or seven trucks and jeeps, lots of guns.
Yitzhak Rabin was ops officer for the army, as I said. I was the same for the air force. The wreckage of the plane was on the beach, burned to a cinder. Our guys rousted out the whole village, including the mukhtar, the mayor. We gathered them in the central square, with the trucks and guns around. A Haganah intelligence officer was interrogating the mukhtar in Arabic.
The plane had been on fire when it crashed, the mayor was saying. The villagers had tried to save the crew but the flames had kept them back. The Haganah officer asked what had happened to the bodies. The jackals got them, said the mukhtar. He and the villagers had tried to keep the beasts back but they couldn’t. The parts of the fliers’ flesh that hadn’t been burned in the crash were devoured by wild animals.
While the mukhtar was reciting this bullshit, my eyes were fixed on his left wrist. He was wearing the watch that had belonged to the pilot of the [bomber].
I got Rabin aside and told him to burn down the village. Put a bullet in the mukhtar’s head and drive all the villagers out. I pointed across the plain. The Egyptian lines are only a few hundred meters away. Let the villagers take their belongings and get out.
“I can’t do that,” said Rabin.
“Why not?”
“Lou, collective punishment is against the Geneva Convention.”
“The hell with the Geneva Convention! You think these Arabs are following the Geneva Convention? They burned our guys to death, then cut ’em up and fed ’em to their dogs—if they didn’t carve ’em up first while they were still alive!”
Already I was thinking that I would have to tell the fathers and mothers of these airmen what had happened to their sons. I would lie like hell, I knew that. I would never tell them the truth of how their sons had died.
I told Rabin again: Shoot the mukhtar and burn the village.
He refused. “We are Jews. We cannot commit such acts.”
Rabin was an idealist. The founding generations of Israel had suffered pogroms and persecution for so many centuries in Russia and Eastern Europe, not to mention the Holocaust only three years earlier, that it had become a point of honor with them that if they ever got their own country, they would not treat others with the same cruelty that they’d been treated with. You have to admire that. It’s honorable. It’s noble. But in war it’s bullshit.
“Would Alexander hesitate to burn this village? Would Caesar?”
“Would Stalin?” said Rabin. “Would Hitler?”
He put his hand on my shoulder.
“We cannot do it, Lou. If we take such actions, we abandon every principle we are fighting for.”
What could I say? Israel was Rabin’s country. I was a foreigner. I couldn’t force my way.
But if you ask me today whether I have any regrets in my life, I will say only one: that I didn’t shoot that mukhtar right then and there—and let Rabin and the Haganah do whatever they wanted with me.
Who was “right” in this case—Lou or Rabin? Whose point of view, if enacted across the board as policy, had the best chance of producing, over time, peace and harmony for both peoples?
Rabin’s position is clearly the most high-minded and moral. Would it have “worked,” in the sense of inspiring in the minds of Israel’s enemies the motivation to negotiate in good faith, seeking a political solution that was equitable for all? We’ll never know because Rabin’s championing of peace over the following nearly fifty years resulted in his assassination by forces within his own nation opposed to such a posture.
What about Lou’s point of view? Certainly, the actions he urged, assuming what he accused the mukhtar of was true, would have produced “justice.” But wouldn’t they, as Rabin stated, betray the ideals of the fledgling Jewish state… and in fact create such hatred among any Arab who learned of them that they would, over time, produce generations who would grow to embrace the ultra-barbaric terrorism we’ve seen from Hamas over the past few days?
Would Rabin’s open-handed policies have produced the same result for different reasons?
I don’t know. My own instinct is that neither point of view would have produced an outcome of peace, or even embittered co-existence, then or now. I put this story of 1948 forward mainly to provide a bit of historical context for the moral and political nightmare that Israel finds itself in today.
Is there some third solution? Is there some policy or course of action somewhere between Rabin’s reaching out and Lou’s Old Testament eye-for-an-eye vengeance?
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Yes there is. The solution is to put down the guns and start negotiations to implement the two-state system. Hamas and Hezbollah should be disarmed. The prime minister of Israel should be changed. Jerusalem should be made a neutral zone, governed and protected by the UN.
And the long-term solution is to make women world leaders. Men, due to their higher testosterone levels, are not suitable to run countries, as we have seen. They are prone to try to solve conflict with aggression when women tend to negotiate. There is research on this. Also, men like to fight. They enjoy wars, guns and extreme sports. It is a fact. Just look at young boys. I did not want to buy my older son a toy gun, so he made one of crispbread. Or Lego blocks. Or whatever. He is a pacifist now, though.
Women who give life are not so willing to take it away.
Finally! Thank you for expressing how I feel about the current situation and in general.
Nice, ❤️ Sadly, men have no idea about giving life, just taking them…
But also, not all women are saints, we had/have a few examples in history where they were much more bloodthirsty than men.
There are examples of evil women and even war ladies, particularly in the dark times of HIStory, when human life, in general, had no worth. I know I am being provocative here, but as a mother and a grandmother, I am so fed up with kids being slaughtered in mindless wars that I cannot take it anymore. We need change! Something must change if we are to survive as a species.
U don’t have to go that far back. Hillary Clinton never saw a war she did not support, nor made money off of.
I know it’s hard to witness kids or anyone slaughtered in war or anytime.. But realize what I see everyday in the United States too… We are at ” war ” in the United States… People who occupy our own country are slaughtered by the kids in grade school bringing guns to school to ” kill the enemy ” being their classmates or teachers… Or how about our kids in the United States who kill their friends or parents or neighbors with the same intent of killing them without our country declaring ” war ” if you understand my opinion
The difficulty lies in two points, ideology and omniscience (or the lack thereof). Peace requires a desire for peace on both sides. If one side desires peace and the other side desires genocide, any “peace agreement” will be suicidal for the peace seekers. When people openly tell you what their goal is, you should believe them. Hamas’ stated goal is, and has always been, the obliteration of the Jews. They deride the Jews for their love of life. That attitude – nay, that mission, cannot be left out of consideration.
The second difficulty is that humans cannot read the hearts of other humans. Therefore, we must rely on actions to discern intent and loyalty. When abhorrent acts are committed, those associated with the bad actors who don’t approve of their actions are quick to deplore them. Those who do approve of them celebrate. Those who approve but don’t want to be condemned with the bad actors remain silent without separating themselves from those bad actors.
These actions are the clearest indicators of the minds of the people in this conflict. If one doesn’t believe that Israel has a right to exist, there’s no more to be said, really. That’s irrational. If only non-Jews have a right to exist, then no one has the right to exist because the criteria for their right to exist depends on their not-being a people who should not exist. Talk about circular thinking.
And if one takes the position that a Syrian takes, for example, that the STATE of Israel has no right to exist, that also is irrational, for the accords that created the State of Israel are the same ones that created the State of Syria (and Lebanon and Jordan). If they are legitimate, then so also is Israel.
If one does believe that Israel has a right to exist, then expecting them to lay down their arms and go as lambs to the slaughter is hypocritical nonsense. If someone said, “I’m going to destroy you and all your family; I won’t rest until you’re all dead,” would you say, “Looky here, I’m putting down my weapons. I’m sure you don’t really mean it.”? Only if you’re a lunatic.
There is another aspect to this that rarely is acknowledged. The State of Israel is a secular entity, an Israelite or Israeli is a person from the lineage of Israel, who was Abraham’s grandson (whose name was changed from Jacob to Israel). “Jew” is a term that comes from the tribe of Judah which split from the ten other tribes after Solomon died (Benjamin sided with Judah). Eventually the other ten tribes were destroyed as tribes, and the Hebrew religion was carried on by Judah – Judaism. So the people of Judah, who followed Judaism, were called Jews.
Arabs descend from Abraham also. God had promised Abraham a son, even though Abraham and his wife were quite old. When God seemed to be taking too long, Sarai suggested that Abraham have sex with a proxy (her handmaid) so that Sarai could have a son that way. (This was an accepted practise in that culture at that time.)
This plan was executed and the proxy (Hagar) did have a son. Then the usual cycle of jealousy did its thing and the result was that Hagar and her son Ishmael were cast out. About 15 years later, Sarah (as she was named then) and Abraham had the promised son, named Isaac. Both boys founded enormous lineages – which have been in conflict ever since. Then, about 1400 years ago, the Ishmael side started its own religion in direct opposition to both Judaism and Christianity, which both originated with the Isaac side.
The Middle East conflict, which has been going on for millennia, is a family feud that makes the Hatfields and McCoy’s look like a playground fuss. No conflict is so vicious as a religious conflict, unless it’s familial conflict. This is both. Applying “remedies” that don’t take this into consideration is like putting a bandaid on leprosy or cancer.
Western civilization arose and was spread by Christianity, which arose out of Judaism. Our western ideas are in sync with Judaism, and are in opposition with Islam. Yes, there are Muslims who have been “westernized” to view the teachings of Islam as symbolic and allegorical, but they are derided, even hated, by “true Islamists” in the Middle East. Applying our western ideas of justice, fair play, “modern war,” etc., to that conflict will only result in a nuclear wasteland there.
Israel is in the very undesirable position of being a western country in an oriental war. Nothing that will win will be acceptable to westerners, and nothing that will be acceptable to westerners will win.
Sorry that was so long – :/
Excellent.
I know it’s hard to witness kids or anyone slaughtered in war or anytime.. But realize what I see everyday in the United States too… We are at ” war ” in the United States… People who occupy our own country are slaughtered by the kids in grade school bringing guns to school to ” kill the enemy ” being their classmates or teachers… Or how about our kids in the United States who kill their friends or parents or neighbors with the same intent of killing them without our country declaring ” war ” if you understand my opinion
Wow. That is putting it out there as truth. In my opinion. I do not understand why there is so much hatred against the Jews???? I have never heard of Jews rioting, killing people and being obnoxious to anyone; unless they are being attacked.
Ears are horrible. Evil is real. I am learning much about it in my older age. It is a choice.
Thank you Mellie
Meant it to say wars are horrible.
What kind of bullshit is this?
Women, who pine for the non-existent “right” to murder human beings in the womb, are no less violent than men. Women, being physically weaker than men, must do their violence in different ways, but killing is killing. That’s why it’s a creative literature trope that “poison is a woman’s weapon”.
There have been violent and war-mongering female leaders all throughout human history. Many mothers of fundamentalist Islamic suicide bombers, while sad that their sons are dead, are openly proud of their dead sons’ actions.
Go back to “school”. Spare us your misandry.
What kind of bullshit is this?
Women, who pine for the non-existent “right” to murder human beings in the womb, are no less violent than men. Women, being physically weaker than men, must do their violence in different ways, but killing is killing. That’s why it’s a creative literature trope that “poison is a woman’s weapon”.
There have been violent and war-mongering female leaders all throughout human history. Many mothers of fundamentalist Islamic suicide bombers, while sad that their sons are dead, are openly proud of their dead sons’ actions.
Go back to “school”. Spare us your misandry.
It must be added that men know all about creating and sustaining life, just as women are every iota as adept at taking it away.
I’ve also observed in my 50+ years on Earth that, when given the chance, women tend to be even more tyrannical than men. Women may be more sympathetic, but they’re LESS empathetic, and that’s not what we need in leadership at all.
Living under tyranny is worse than death. “Give me liberty, or give me death.”
You are right. Women by and large hate other women. The hatred of women by women is worse than any man based hating. Go to any junior high for evidence based findings.
We can’t solve any problems with the same old tropes about women or Jewish moral superiority. Let’s start getting real. Enough with the bullshit.
Men wage war with weapons and testosterone-driven fearlessness. Women wage war by playing on the insecurities of men. The film Malena is worth watching as a reminder.
The argument that women should run the world sounds like the intellectual dishonesty of some virtue-signaling women–the ones who wish to pretend that untold millennia of being physically weaker than men gave them no special powers of male manipulation, the way blind people have extraordinary auditory perception.
In addition, the fallacy of all armchair quarterbacks is they would do a better job, because from the outside problems seem simpler than they really are. Certainly a world run by women would be less violent, but it wouldn’t be perfect, because humans contain multitudes. We do cooperate with each other when it seems beneficial, but we ruthlessly compete when that seems like better strategy. For some reason people sell a lot of books by pretending humans are one or the other. The challenge is how to reconcile the good manners of Dr Jekyll with the ravenous appetites of Mr Hyde. We delude ourselves that we can happily coexist with other humans, when we struggle to even reconcile our own conflicting impulses.
Why such a negative reaction about women?? It is the men who have made most kind hearted enduring women throughout history that have caused a lot of women the less empathetic or compassion that the woman use to possess within themselves.. Men’s attitudes of being the ” boss ” much of the time is an unsympathetic attitude too.. But oh wait until they need the woman they claim is unsympathetic or unkind to them.. Then who changes what about women?? Remember most men are dead before women are.. Or is it the other way around: men’s attitudes or ” nice ” words about women have already ” killed ” them long before they hit the ground, huh.. It does go both directions ya know.
Israel has offered the two-state solution multiple times and each time the Palestinians turn it down. They want ONLY one state and that is the state of Palestine. They will not acknowledge the RIGHT of the Jews to Israel and therefore there can never be peace because Palestine does NOT want peace. They want only dead Jews.
That point seems forgotten bt most people.
Very well put, Kati. Nothing justifies bombing a hospital or killing kids with phosphorus bombs. Women wouldn’t let that happen – or would they?
The Arabs won’t stop until they start loving their kids more than they hate the Israelis. Besides, what happened to many Jews during WWII, they have to compromise, or this conflict will never end.
I believe that Jews and Arabs can live in peace together, but not if they continue to dig one’s feet in.
Kati, I’m sorry you were attacked so aggressively.
Kati, do you know anything about the conflict you claim to solve so simply? Read the posts below, a few of them lay it out clearly. Then “. . . men like to fight” you claim. All men? Did you read Pressfield’s story about the guy that would not kill the mayor and drive the people out of the village? Have you read about the German man who, during the second world war, saved thousands of Jewish children by forging passports for them and putting them on trains out of Germany? Have you heard of Jesus, Ganda, King, pacifist, and doctors. . . “Women who give life are not so willing to take it away.” The World Health Organization estimates in the past five years, 365 million abortions have been performed around the world. In that same period, including civilians and military personnel, the estimated death toll is five hundred thousand. You might research Elizabeth of Russia, Catherine de Medici, and Queen Isabella. Kati you are so young and naïve. Read, learn, and think more deeply. I wish you well.
Kati is quite remarkable! Yep here comes all the critics… She has her own opinion as all of you do.. I’m not upholding Kati or any of you… Respect someone else’s opinions too.. You just might change yours if you have the same thing happen to you..
“…negotiations to implement the two-state solution…”
Would that be the two-state solution that the Palestinians have rejected, over and over? The two-state solution is a delusion.
“Jerusalem should be made a neutral zone, governed and protected by the UN.”
Because the United Nations is so effective at everything else they do? And they never show bias or antisemitism? *eye roll*
“…the long-term solution is to make women world leaders.” cuz, men=violence, and women=love and piece? cuz, testosterone, and stuff?
*double eye roll*
Explain Isabella I of Spain, then. And “Bloody Mary,” Mary I and Elizabeth I. of England. Don’t over look Isabella I of Spain, likewise, Isabella of France.
Those are women rulers who spilled massive amounts of blood, but even less famously bloodthirsty women rulers started, on average, more wars than their males counterparts.
https://www.thecut.com/2016/01/european-queens-waged-more-wars-than-kings.html
Your own baises are showing.
Dear Steve, you know that I have struggled with this question for most of my adult life. I still struggle with war and all that it entails. I struggle with peace and all that it entails. I know that I was one thing and now I am another. God did that in His grace. I know that I cannot impact most of the things going on in the world – but I can have a huge impact on my ‘circle of influence’. I must strive to make peace with the man in the mirror AND to “love God with all of your might, with all of your strength…love your neighbor, love your enemies.” God forgive me. God forgive us all. Thank you for this post. I love you so. Thank you for the incredible afternoon I got to spend with Lou. He was a hero to me the day I met him, and he is a hero to me…still.
Your friend and ally – always.
Jim
1COR13:13
Yes to this Jim. Thank you!! The dilema is real. God is the only One whose justice rolls like a river and mercy triumphs over all in absolutely perfect proportions. He has also worked to change me from one thing to another. It is only in surrendering our hubris to His that we can walk in His ways. What Micah 3:8 said thousands of years ago still resounds with truth in the now: He has shown you, mortal man, what is good. And what does the lord require of you? To act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God. There is evil in the world. Hamas is telling us through their actions that they have aligned their heart with evil (ie: act in my own interest at any cost to you). Evil must be stopped and it requires justice in the form of death in order to protect more innocent people who will be sacrificed. But our hearts are just as prone to justify a decent into being like them if we are not careful. The kingdom of God is here and available to all of us. God’s rule and reign in the hearts of willing, surrendered men and women is ultimately the only allegiance that will eventually bring the true peace we were created to enjoy. Sounds sappy and religious but it’s not in actuality. May we all be just, merciful and humble in this hour. The fate of humanity depends on it.
And thank you Steve for the history. The past indeed has set up the current hour. The only thing the Jews have had that has led to their survival has been that “they are Jews and they don’t commit such acts.” If they loose that, they might gain the world but loose their soul. (Which Jesus warned them of)
Good news!! You a preacher or a poet?? What church have you decided to start up with all this preaching about?? Are you in need of a tithe check or church offering to pay for your kids college education??? Sorry hun I gave mine to charity.. Bankruptcy haha so nobody else gets it… Sorry if you become offended.. Preach somewhere else…
I can’t help but wonder if the people who cheered Rabin’s assassination aren’t the same folks cheering on Netanyahu today.
Great story, and the soldier’s eternal dilemma. Here’s another story – ‘Mad’ Mike Calvert, one of the founders of the British Special Air Service was operating hundreds of miles behind Japanese lines in WW2. His unit had suffered casualties and caught a villager who had been giving their position to the Japanese. Calvert asked the man what the Japanese would have done if they’d caught him doing the same thing? The man replied ‘They would kill me.’ And what, did the man think Calvert was going to do? The man replied ‘Kill me?’ Calvert, ‘that’s where you are wrong. And that is why we are going to win this war. If I kill you, your family will hate the British even more.’ And with that he let his captive go. He never knew if the man went on working for the Japanese. This story was told by John Woodhouse, one the legendary SAS COs, whom Calvert taught. Woodhouse led the SAS in Malaya, Borneo and Oman – all wars the SAS won against insurgents.
Great story! Soldiers throughout history have faced this challenge the counter-balance of Justice and Righteousness. But the third alternative, one consistently rejected by short sighted humanity, is found in the 3,000-year-old poem, Psalm 2.
See:
“The World at War Volume 1 and 2”
Isbn 0-7831-1939
Available for free and most libraries.
A multi part documentary that chronicles events through the experiences of ordinary men and women from multiple nations, civilian and military.
Watch it and then repost. Tell me what you would do if you lived in Stalingrad between June 1942- February 1943. I would be very interested in listening to you explain how you would walk away from that – could you form a cohesive argument consisting of multiple steps (an escape plan) that you would personally craft and follow to get yourself out of those conditions? In truth, I could not.
Very Respectfully,
To think that a woman, a mother, would turn the other cheek while her baby is being set on fire is not really thinking clearly. Consider attacking a tiger cub and see what mom will do.
I thank God for Netanyahu and wish we had a leader of his wisdom and courage.
Yeah ok, but who started this bullshit? Who stole land from whom? And aren’t the usual suspects ALWAYS men? I agree with the first poster. We women are fed up with all this male posturing and bullshit.
And don’t give me the lie that its anti-semitic, the Arabs are a semitic tribe too. Jews don’t have a monopoly on the word even though they act as if they do.
Please review your history. I don’t think you understand the facts of this conflict as clearly as you claim. How far back do you want to go in who took who’s land? Also, men might be the ones holding the weapons but most times it’s their women that are cheering them on. Please see some videos of how the Palestinians are raising their kids under Hamas. How children are taught to hate Jews and the west. Who are raising those kids? The men? It’s easy to spew out solutions based on our western view of war and peace.
Absolutely!!! If you try to discipline your kids about getting themselves in the messes they repeatedly get huh into.. When does the mother turn the other cheek?? Or do you stop protecting your kids ?? Or just let them continue the same road over and over again.. I guess men are built one way and women are built another.. It’s neither unsympathetic or unkind to me if you decide to let them continue the same road over and over again.. Sometimes you can’t teach an old dog new tricks either..
Thank you for sharing. The story resonates. Your analysis resonates.
I do not think there is a beautiful, workable solution to intrinsic structural conflicts such as those that define the Middle East situation.
There is no creative, co-operative answer.
There are some conflicts which can resolved by the right kinds of exchanges between the opposing parties.
And there are some conflicts whose intrinsic nature dictates that they can have no happy ending, ever.
Realities of life on Earth:
There are some conflicts that can be managed to Win-Win
There are some conflicts that can never have any outcome other than Win-Lose.
And some conflict situations are Lose-Lose in perpetuity, even if the people charged to manage the conflict were all women channeling divine mothering instincts.
Saddening indeed.
But this is the way it is, and we must accept it, and do our best to protect our own families -and that requires us to protect ourselves too.
You nailed it, Harry. Some conflicts will always be Win-Lose and Lose-Lose, and that is truly sad.
Hopefully we as a species will not be reduced to a small handful of survivors before we realize in order to maintain the human race, we have to learn to get along with each other. We may not LIKE each other, but we have to learn to coexist to avoid extinction.
Thank you very much for the post dear Steve.
What can one possibly answer to the question “what if somebody torments your people to death and then they become your prisoners”?
Something in my instinct instantly tells me that the very basis of this question is such that it is inappropriate to answer itself. It also tells me that this is a trap-question for humanity.
A new question arises from within in order to find a good answer to that question: the question is, “what is the meaning of life?”
“Masculine” instincts which exist within all people who have cultivated them but are a bit easier to follow for men, will kill. “Feminine” instincts, which also exist in all people who have cultivated them but are a bit easier for women to cultivate, may negotiate and protect. But instincts are instincts –we can’t change them at the time being and behold, thanks to their existence and combination women and men and all our ancestors for millions of years survived.
My personal hope for the future is science. Through its evolution -see now, we write to each others from the four corners of earth within milliseconds, and not only that, but another fact between the thousands is that innumerable lives are saved every day of every year through the advances of medicine and science and technology, but no one reminds us that although it’s so easy to know. And behold again, millions of men and women fight for great causes every day trying to lead science to a better future. My guess is that all barbarian people have no touch with the science, except with what can help create guns etc. That may be where the instincts are so pivotal that people see only enemies. It can start inside countries or religions differences but it can also start within a family when the two parents fight egotistically.
But humanity is moving forward. I’m working on a Master thesis now. If I could show you the possibilities that I feel exist there!
Count the people on earth. See how many try to create a better world. I feel that they are too many, I feel that they are more than we could hope for, it’s just that they remain invinsible behind their desks and their neighborhoods and their laptops. We must judge weighting that side of humanity too, I guess.
We have a long way to go.But we have moved forward an even longer way.
Thank you, Steve, for some timely historical context, and for your always welcome ability to crisply present competing ideas. I wonder, when you ask if there is some third solution, if you’ve given any thought to a reconciling force that can emerge from the affirming and denying forces currently at play? If we are third-force blind, what are your thoughts on a new lense we can peer through to catch a glimpse of reconciliation? How is Resistance working here? Thank you!
Just want to say.. Comments I have posted may be a little off track but I thought about what others posted to comment as I have..
https://thestuffofsuccess.com/
Just want to say.. Comments I have posted may be a little off track but I thought about what others posted to comment as I have..
We are Jews. We commit these acts just like every other human since the beginning of recorded history. We Jews are no different than any other group. We are not above human frailty. The “chosen people” had been damned since the beginning, the covenant was broken with HaShoah.
A gun to his head and gun to mine. Who would you rather pulls the trigger first? Who do you want to live? As much as our day to day lives may sicken us from time to time, you can bet I’ll pull the trigger for me and mine before we are slaughtered. We wouldn’t have made it this far if we refused to fight. This is what it is. This is reality. Frightening? Very much. Excessive? Perhaps. Necessary? Definitely. How do we live within that contradiction? Some can’t. They want an easy answer to opine about. And usually the ones opining don’t have a dog in the fight. But we few, we happy few, we band of brothers, we know.
Fight, and keep fighting. It’s how the Jews will survive and is the only way as the entire world will (sadly) betray you in the future. Then the antichrist, the man who promises peace and builds the temple will come and HE will promise peace, then betray you 3.5 years later. It’s all in the Torah.
Men (and women) of CHARACTER act based on who THEY ARE, not based on the depravity, evil, and lack of conscience of those around them. To act as your friend Lou did is a sign of HIS character. Palestine has NO moral or ethical character. They are jackals, cowards, and demons. They do not value, cannot value life, or what it means to have or love. They know only violence. They are children of Satan, the father of lies. Their only goals in life are to lie, kill, and destroy. God is a good God, the only God. He has said that as long as there is an earth, the Jews will have and live in Jerusalem.
In the Torah, David kills Goliath — the PHILESTINE. That word means Palestine. The Jews are fighting the SAME enemy today as they did 2,000 years ago. As a matter of fact, turn to the concept of the Jewish “Jubilee.” The war Hamas started on Oct. 6, 2023, was exactly 50 years to the day of the 1973 Israeli war. Same day. Same circumstances — on a Jewish high holiday and Israel was taken by surprise then as well. The end will be the same as well — Israel will WIN. The bible says that Russia, Iran, Lebanon, Libya, Turkey, and Ethiopia. We are seeing Biblical prophecy unfolding before our eyes. https://davidjeremiah.blog/what-does-the-bible-say-about-modern-russia/
What option “had the best chance of producing, over time, peace and harmony for both peoples?”
That’s the nut.
Thank you for this gripping perspective.
I hold the expectation that we can work through our differences as human BEINGS but still recognize that a bully needs to be punched in the nose.
I have struggled with setting boundaries in personal and professional relationships and it has caused me much harm in my life and relationships. I have put others needs beyond my own and as such my life has been mostly miserable. I have tolerated such a life for far too long.
Individuals as well as societies must establish boundaries to live a life worth living and the unfortunate reality of dealing with narcissistic individuals or states is that you have to fight for your rights as human beings.
If you don’t stand up for what you believe in, if you don’t fight for what you believe in you will not deserve to have that which you believe in.
I can’t help but think of this quote by Karl Popper on the paradox of tolerance
“Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance,” Popper wrote. “If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.”
Unfortunately, Freedom isn’t free when there is oppressive opposition.
You cannot reason with the unreasonable.
Imagine what would have happened if the Nazi regime was not destroyed. Evil will win if not fought against.
I know for certain I wouldn’t let someone come in my house and murder my family without fighting back because I don’t believe in killing.
Morality all begins at an individual level.
Well spoken.
The despair I was feeling about this Israel / Palestine crisis has just about quadrupled as I read these comments! Biblical prophesies and promises; Antichrist? Prophet Jeremiah? Ask God to forgive us [I’m actually having a hard time forgiving God….Omniscient, Omnipresent, Omnipotent God apparently doesn’t feel this is worth his time, attention or trouble….oh I forgot, he would interject himself, but he has to make sure the idiot prophesies are upheld] Now if we could only add some other non-related factor into the war mix here…..hey! how about a gender war! Seems like a perfect time for that.
Once again, the US has been lucky….if the Indigenous tribes of Native Americans had included just one Jewish tribe, the whole Four Corners area and its attendant states, overflowing with synagogues. US residents….OUT; Navajo….OUT; Hopi….OUT; Mexicans…OUT! [ok, I’m kind of making dark humor there]
We were damned lucky!
One thing from recent history keeps coming to my mind: After 9/11, almost every decision we made turned out to be wrong….both tactically and extraordinarily worse, strategically. My main hope is that in this tragedy we do not simply do a repeat of our tragic responses to 9/11.
Thank you, Steven.
You present an important perspective on this ancient feud. Consider Hebron 1929. A similar massacre based on what could have been a rumor. Confusion, mistaken blame and covert manipulation causes so much animosity and bloodshed between cultures. Here the proper course of action seems sadly clear. The massacre has to be punished. Since Gaza is not really anything except a convenient launching pad for attacks against Israel it should be annexed by Israel. Hamas must be expelled, arrested or executed and the Palestinians make up their minds to share the area or relocate to Turkey or Iran. Tolerance, inappropriately applied, becomes a weapon serving those with malicious intent and causes far more suffering than just retribution.
I don’t think that Israelis has any deep rooted problems with any Arab State as of today. I think they prefer reasoning like Chinese. Keeping historical hatred alive rather than current ones. Their fear us with Christians. You saw them shooting on them?
I think they needed help inside there and they needed to be strong. Their problem is imported one from the Far East. Hitting hard is the only language some people understand. Let them hit back hard. Fucking hard.
Thank you Steve. And I just read Sam Harris’ excellent short essay from Oct 12 (https://www.samharris.org/blog/the-sin-of-moral-equivalence?utm_source=braze&utm_campaign=2023_w42_newContent_338), where Sam makes the moral non-equivalence between Hamas and Israel patently clear. I urge everyone to read it.
Re your story of Lou and Rabin, I would like to think that Rabin at the least explained to the Mukhtar how and why he had escaped with his life by a whisker. That he was still breathing only because the Israeli leadership adheres to high moral standards, which they would not compromise despite the obvious murder, theft, and lies.
I do think there is a great deal of sympathy for the Israeli victims and Israel’s position among the silent majority, but the rise in antisemitism that I witness in the UK and across Europe is disappointing, to put it mildly.
I hate being pessimistic, as it looks like things will become worse before they get better. However I’m sure that things will get better.
Steve, take care of yourself.
Your friend across the pond,
Peter
The West will understand the impact of their actions once Israel is no longer the main target of Islamic terrorists.. When their neighborhood is infiltrated and ruled, the “tolerance” of these extremists against the immoral westerners will no longer be needed and their abhorrence will show. How many cases of “family” honor killings have we seen in the past few decades even here in UK or in America? A culture that holds family “name” over the lives of their own children, flesh and blood, cannot be trusted to cherish the lives of the “non-believers’” children.
The answer is that there is no right answer, much as we wish for one.
In high school we learned all about Neville Chamberlain’s appeasement of Hitler. We learned nothing about how we embargoed 94% of Japan’s oil supply. Both appeasement and containment backfired, as it turned out. Perhaps that’s why we weren’t taught in school; it’s an unsettling reality.
It is impossible to know the ideal strategy in advance, although some are better than others. Was it a mistake for the British and Americans to turn the mideast into client states run by loyal dictators, who kept their own people under the thumb of oppression, and gave rise to religious revolutionaries? Obviously; that could have been foretold, but it was perpetrated by people who didn’t suffer the ultimate consequences of their short-sighted ambitions.
The most powerful weapon America possesses is cultural persuasion. Millions of migrants risk their lives to come here, because our society is so much better and freer than most. We undermine our own cause with colonial belligerence, as we have been doing since the 19th century.
But now that the milk has been spilt, it cannot be poured back, and no amount of appeasement for past misdeeds will pacify the jihadists, who are enemies of Western values everywhere. Moderate and apostate Muslims must equally live in fear of violent extremists who have taken political power by force in the name of resisting tyranny.
I believe there is a solution, but it must come from both sides. I don’t mean from both Israel and whichever one of the ME nations is the current aggressor. I mean Israel from the inside and the rest of the world from the outside – at least, the civilized world.
Israel must show that it CAN fight and it WILL fight. And the civilized world must show that it WILL NOT ALLOW an aggressor to violate another nation.
This has worked in the past. There have been long periods of peace after aggressors have been put in their place by an alliance of nations not yet in the fight: Germany and the Ottomans in WW1, and Germany, Italy, and Japan in WW2 are the two big ones, but there have been several smaller incidents since.
The Ukraine Invasion by Russia would have been much shorter (and long over by now) if other nations had not helped Ukraine. And I believe it would have been stopped in short order if those other nations would have told Russia to “Stop, or it will be all of us against you,” rather than tiptoing around, trying not to offend Russia while slipping small help to the underdog.
Nation-against-nation war will stop when the civilized world stops allowing it. If China knew that Europe and the Americas would join together against it if it invaded Taiwan, Taiwan would NEVER have to worry about invasion. If any or all of the nation-states around Israel knew that a war with Israel meant war with all of the civilized nations, Israel would be safe.
Bullies are full of bravado when they have allies to back them up and they’re not held accountable by stronger outside forces. But when their victim’s big friends show up – the bully may still feel the same way about the intended victim, but they won’t act on their impulses.
President Trump negotiated peace in the ME ostensibly using mutual benefit – but he would not have been successful if he had been the President of, say, Monaco. It was the might of the US that got those nations to the bargaining table. And that was what held them to their bargain afterward.
Aggressor nations are not civilized, regardless of how ancient they may be. The civilized world will not be able to live in peace until the savages of the world know that the civilized nations WILL NOT allow the savages to ravage other nations. We can’t sit back and say, “Well, it’s not my fight.” That is no less immoral on the world stage than it is on the playground. An aggressor only respects strength. If we actually want peace, it is only “peace through superior firepower” that will preserve it.
I agree. You can’t tell children to hug it out after one of them hit one without provocation. You need to give the oppressed comfort and discipline the other. If you demand for them to hug it out, the oppressor will think they can get away with anything and will find the chance to keep doing the same thing over and over. 1) History needs to be taught properly. 2) We need to stop tolerating evil.
Mr. Gant stated above, “I know that I cannot impact most of the things going on in the world – but I can have a huge impact on my ‘circle of influence.”
This is where we start, where we should try to begin each day.
That’s the comment I would’ve made, Jackie, had I not chickened out of commenting at all.
Meanwhile, what does anyone think of this?
https://twitter.com/ScottAdamsSays/status/1714692143804281043
💜
I was hoping Steve would write something about this conflict today. This is all so scary/unreal/threatening that I wanted to read some thoughts from an adult, and the adult responses from this Tribe I’ve come to adore.
Before making any comments, I highly encourage everyone to add this podcast to your ‘next up’ list. Darryl Cooper of MartyrMade Podcast. Similar to Dan Carlin’s ‘Hardcore History’, this 6-part podcast is the history of the Palestine/Israel conflict from 1880s-1948. Brilliant. Almost 30 hours of content–and you’ll learn there are no innocents in Palestine. It begins with Darryl asking you to imagine yourself a young Jewish man at the beginning of a pogram in Russia.
Here is the website, but you can find the podcast on any player: https://martyrmade.com/fear-loathing-in-the-new-jerusalem/
This podcast helped me to see the situation in Israel with greater balance, but also that the only solution I see is similar to Jim Gant’s. We must all start our day on our knees in prayer.
bsn
Brian,
Martyrmade downloaded and queued!
Cheers dude.
Peter
Second post. So busy that I haven’t had a chance to read all the posts (it is now at 43, when I read this morning it was at 25—so haven’t read all my fav’s comments…gonna have to check in later today or tmrw.
As I think about the situation in Israel, I realized that my own internal temperature has been 10-15 degrees higher since March 2020. It has never come down. My zero to 11 reactions, which historically were very, very rare—happen often these days. My amygdala has been brutalized for 36+ straight months—I now see threats where I previously would just amble around thoughtlessly. A quick run down:
• Spring 2020- COVID. China welded people in their apartments. Millions were thought to die.
• Summer 2020–the summer of love & ‘mostly peaceful protests’.
• Fall 2020-COVID death count is all news all day all the time–even though we learned that 90% of the people in hospitals are obese with other co-morbidities.
• crazy election–one guy is up Tuesday night, Wednesday mornings the vote counts changed dramatically–and to say anything about it makes you a ‘right-wing nut job’.
• Jan 6 & all the drama surrounding it.
• Criminally irresponsible way in which we withdrew from Kabul (we knew then–at least anyone with half a brain–that Ukraine was dead and Taiwan was next. The gig is up. The world witnessed our weakness of both will and character.)
• $85 billion weapons and tech left to Taliban. By design.
• get vaccinated or lose your job
• vaccination is bunk
• vaccination might give you a heart attack
• war in Ukraine & Russia
• talk of nukes
• crime is ubiquitous
• children cannot get tatoos, smoke, drink, enter a tanning salon—but by God, if a 7 year old boy tells you he should remove his junk—you MUST believe him. In Washington State, the govt can take the kid from your home if you question his ability to determine his gender
• Censoring by our government and big tech
• Gaslit everywhere, everything thing all at once. You cannot believe your eyes…
• An insane hybrid of Huxlean and Orwellian nightmares
All of this—all of this—leads me to the understanding that there are no fixes outside of ourselves.
This week I’ve been back to doom-scrolling. Hard not to. It feels irresponsible to bury my head, but paying attention is both terrifying and darkening…
The only thing I can do is begin my day on my knees. Remind myself of the monster that I can be at any given moment. Hope and pray that my efforts to feed the angel in me can keep the beast at bay. Produce what I can in this world.
The first thread here this morning activated the beast in me. I was ready for a fight and can be at any second. I wanted to jump in with both feet, swinging from the masculine ‘top ropes’ and deliver the Atomic Elbow to those *$%#@$?&*%…
And this is from people who, by the very act of showing up here on Wednesdays, fall into my ‘camp’ of people. If I was ready to leap from the top rope at someone I don’t know—who reads the same stuff I read, and is a fan of Writing Wednesdays as I am—then how in the heck is there a secular, govt solution to the Israel/Palestine situation with over 100 years of legitimate grievances on both sides?
I must stay focused on my own plank jutting out of my own eyes.
bsn
No one else replied to this?
I realized that my own internal temperature has been 10-15 degrees higher since March 2020. It has never come down. My zero to 11 reactions, which historically were very, very rare—happen often these days. My amygdala has been brutalized for 36+ straight months
Well, even if no one else does, I hear you, brother, and I could not agree more. Well said! These are truly crazy days we live in.
Nom
Sweet baby Bathsheba, this is the most unhinged thing I’ve seen on the internet in months, which is QUITE the feat. (Especially considering that this comment section alone is a SH1T-show.)
Crime is DOWN
‘Government censorship’ – like banning books and {checks notes} WORDS
And NO ONE is letting 7-year-olds cut off their junk.
Quit believing b.s. It makes you seem daft..
Mel,
Here is an article about ‘gender affirming care’ in Washington state: https://apnews.com/article/washington-transgender-health-care-minors-parents-296005ba7c084db94e241283067d2dff
NO ONE…except that it is now law in Washington.
I have no idea where you live, but to say crime is down is a perfect example of Orwellian Double-Think. Censorship–check out the Twitter Files.
Chances are that you agree with all of this. No, you must agree with it if you think I’m unhinged.
Do you have any of your Soma left? I could use some…
Oh, I do love the word daft though. Well played.
bsn
Steve,
With your permission a few years ago I included the 1948 Lenart/Rabin clash in my book ANGELS IN THE SKY (Norton 2017). The anecdote capsulizes the classic warrior’s dillemna: righteous vengeance vs. adherence to a higher moral code. Answer a war crime with a war crime? This war is different, but Israel’s choices haven’t changed. Rabin was right. Lenart was wrong. Israel must be better than its enemies.
Anybody who has not read Lion’s Gate, I highly recommend it. It is eye-opening.
There seem to be no immediate or easy solutions for the horror happening in the ME. I pray we Earthlings find one before it is too late.
Thanks, Steve, for setting us up for this thoughtful dialogue.
Paullette MacDougal
Steven, until, Jesus returns there will be wars and rumors of war not just in the Middle East.
Goodness, if we, in this small group of lovers of art and its process, can’t come together in a PEACEful way, clearly, there is no hope for humanity.
Reading over these comments, attacking opposing views and not hearing different voices of dissension, there can be no resolve, anywhere.
Kati, I’m sorry, the attacks on you were so fierce, after sharing your opinions. I can’t say male or female is the answer. Violence is too imbedded in us. It doesn’t alway take a gun or bomb to destroy. Sometimes it’s just a word or a signature.
After my husband came home from Vietnam, he was worn and sick. Disheartened, he looked out on society and thought, “This, all this, is why I went to Vietnam?” Agent Orange and the close up atrocities he lived through, gave him one resolve. The only way to PEACE was through the children. He became a teacher, so he could share PEACEful ways and solutions. It begins there.
Well, said Steven.
Great read. I’m reminded of Martin Luther King Jr.’s Nobel Lecture – The Quest For Peace and Justice. If only we were there.
🍃💜🍃
Ouf! That’s the beauty or the curse of being a member of the human (animal) species: each of us have a different way of seeing the same thing. War, no matter the reason, is uncivilized. And we say we are superior to the other animals! What a myth! Human animals have been fighting for land and later minerals under the land since their nutritional appearance on this planet. Whether males or females (yes more males because they have been raised to think that they own everything on the planet and can dispose of them as they wish by all 3 “abrahamic/mosaic” religions, we create weapons to kill each other. Not to feed each other, give them a safe place to rest, give them health care, work and education. Yes, definitely, not all humans are homicidal, but too many stay passive when they are watching homicides and genocides.
Thank you. 🍃🌸🍃
Not nutritional but mutation appearance on this planet. By the way, none of the other animals, as far as I know, have used slavery, holocaust, massacre, rape, genocide to build their nest, take and maintain power no matter what while destroying their cocoon, planet Earth, in the process. We even created the concepts of God and the Devil to justify our insanity. Fortunately for us,most humans are still sane. So we have some hope of survival.
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An eye for an eye hum then the whole world would go blind!
I failed to say, I stand by Rabin.
If your message ends up being lengthy, I would be delighted to learn about your experiences during the 1948 Israeli War of Independence. The story is interesting because it centers on a confrontation between your friend Lou Lenart and Yitzhak Rabin, an important person in Israeli history who went on to become prime minister and a well-known peace activist. This story is made much more engaging by the human connection and historical background. If you ever find yourself wanting to delve deeper into the complexities of that era or share insights that go beyond the narrative, you might consider having enthusiasts or learners take my class to gain a more comprehensive understanding. When you’re ready, feel free to give the specifics; I’m listening.
This is very nice, indeed.