He’s the author of the mega-best-seller THE CREATIVE ACT … and also “the Godfather of Hip-Hop” and facilitator of many, many hits, working out of his Shangri-la Studios in Southern California.
He has also become a great friend (both of us lost houses … Rick lost two … in the SoCal fires), who has been very kind to Diana and me through the post-apocalypse ups-and-downs.
Rick Rubin, author of The Creative Act
But I’m burying the lead, which is that Rick and I had an hour-and-a quarter audio conversation a couple of weeks ago for his podcast, Tetragrammaton. It’s live on his YouTube channel now, but you can also listen to it at the link below.
I normally would not mention a podcast, but I’m making an exception just because this one came out so good. It’s loaded with stuff that (I hope) will be helpful to all us writers and artists. The podcast turned out to be more of a conversation than an interview. I wound up asking Rick as many questions as he asked me.
The interview is audio only.
It’s an hour and fifteen minutes long.
Two guys talking about creativity and the creative process.
Steve shows you the predictable Resistance points that every writer hits in a work-in-progress and then shows you how to deal with each one of these sticking points. This book shows you how to keep going with your work.
A short book about the writing of a first novel: for Steve, The Legend of Bagger Vance. Having failed with three earlier attempts at novels, here's how Steve finally succeeded.
Steve shares his "lessons learned" from the trenches of the five different writing careers—advertising, screenwriting, fiction, nonfiction, and self-help. This is tradecraft. An MFA in Writing in 197 pages.
Amateurs have amateur habits. Pros have pro habits. When we turn pro, we give up the comfortable life but we find our power. Steve answers the question, "How do we overcome Resistance?"
I literally shouted praise when you talked about Greatness, work being an offering to God, and the James Bashara quote “work without attachment is worship”. Thank you.
Jackieon August 19, 2026 at 3:32 am
Carving out the time to take a listen today. Sounds like much needed inspiration.
Bethon August 19, 2026 at 3:48 am
This was a fantastic podcast; so important! Grateful to you and Rick!
Victor Juhaszon August 19, 2026 at 5:27 am
Absolutely solid conversation. Terri and I listened on our drive home from Canada.
I liked hearing Steve talk about relationships with a trusted editor — Shawn, then Diana as exemplars. Steve gives Rubin a comment comparing his process with Thomas Wolfe: “I would just spew a book out.” (Which then made me think about Steve’s thoughts on “covering the canvas.”)
Then thinking how stories/writing sometimes seems to come THROUGH us, and not always FROM us. And how the writer might be thought of more as a MIDWIFE than a MOTHER of their stories. The mother doesn’t have a clear view of her own infant being born. She doesn’t clearly see the form of this new creation until it’s swaddled and presented to her by the midwife. It’s the midwife who might first inform the mother: “You have a baby girl.”
Okay.
So back to Steve’s “Thomas Wolfe” reference — have we talked here about the 2016 film “Genius,” with Colin Firth as Scribner’s editor Max Perkins, and Jude Law as Thomas Wolfe? Such a great depiction of the relationship between these two men, but also about how a writer and editor work together.
On YouTube, you can find scenes from “Genius” stitched together in an eight-minute video. I won’t put a link in here (might get hung up “awaiting moderation”). But in YT, search “Wolfe Perkins Genius Reviewing.” The clip opens with Tom appearing sheepishly at the door of Max’s office. He says, “the new book… I have it.” Max clearly has been waiting, and says with this expectant, hopeful look on his face. “Well… let’s have it!”
Tom has a crew waiting in the hallway, whom he calls to bring in a trunk and three milk crates — stacked full of paper bundles bound in twine, dozens of them. Some pages are typed and some are hand-written. Max first looks confused, then incredulous. “THIS is ‘Of Time and the River’?” he asks Tom.
Max reaches down and hoists one bundle by the knot, examining it like he was holding a dead possum by the tail. Tom looks like he’s preparing for Max to yell at him.
Max just says, “Well done.” Tom exhales like he’d been holding his breath, slumping like someone just hit his Gumby button, and grinning in relief.”
“Now go home and get some sleep and let me read,” Max says.
And then follow the dramatic scenes which show process of working together to make the writer’s story the best it can be. It shows the evolution of one chapter’s scene where a guy falls in love with a woman he sees in a bar. It goes from this heavily overwritten, florid, purple prose — even if it was poetic and not without beauty, through the two of them working over that one passage…
Taking it from bloated and overwritten — to an incisive lightning bolt.
Anyhow… writers and editors.
Jackieon August 19, 2026 at 10:36 am
WOW! I just finished the podcast. Best long lunch break ever. So much here.
One aspect of the podcast reminded me of what a painting mentor said to our group. “At some point, put your brush down and sit on your hands.” I’ve learned that point is not something one can teach. It comes from inside. It applies to many disciplines. I’ve felt it not only in painting but also in writing, gardening, working on our house. Where does the inspiration from within stop and the outside world intrude? That’s the point you must learn to feel.
Thank you Steve and Rick for the inspiration.
I just got to the part where the two of you are talking about art as an offering to God. Is this something you’d be proud to offer? That’s it. That’s everything. That’s the finish line.
I understand what Rick says about the flow of energy. It knows, and if you find the way, it is there *with* you. The Force in Star Wars touched on it although it was more goddish, like a spiritual essence. But of course its not, it’s as real as you and me. It’s magic derives from its parallelism to our best self, true best self, not best for others.
Now it’s a battle happening in the book I create. I mean, wow, if I had an image of a particular fighting scene in mind, it would be so fake. I always felt that. But no. It’s what Rick says “It’s not about music at all, really. I work in music but the practice is not about music at all.” It’s just energy, our individual energy, that if tackled is capable of creating lightings around its’ movement.
I laughed here:
“What do you attribute it selling right away to?”
“I don’t know. Maybe I had so much bad luck for the previous 52 years of my life that it all kind of -finally the penny came up heads, you know.”
I laughed, of coure, becaue the Energy connected to that. I know the feeling, and as far as today, it’s darkest side.
Now I’m with the energy. Before that, at first I was *on* the energy, then without the energy so I used perfection to offset its demotion, and now I’m with the energy. Simple, all it needs is some effort to sustain it and some flexibility.
I have a strong feeling that I must not stay there for ever. I must circulate like the elements on earth and the universe. Or else I will fail it by the passing of time. But who cares now? I found the last piece and I work on it.
It’s that notion that you are again an amateur, but this time a pro amateur. Exactly that.
My love to you both, Diana, the team, the friends.
I’m writing.
Patronu aradığında sürekli hasta olduğunu söyleyerek iş yerine yalan söylüyor
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porno Muayene için eve gelen doktor olgun kadını muayene ediyor ve hiç bir sıkıntı olmadığını söylüyor
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Porno İzle Karılarını takas etmek isteyen elemanlar hep birlikte evde buluşuyor
türkçe porno Güzel vakit geçirdikten sonra kızlara isteklerini iletiyorlar ve hatunlarda kocalarının bu isteklerini kabul ediyorlar
seks hikayeleri Hemen ellerine telefonları alan elemanlar karılarına video eşliğinde sakso çektiriyorlar
porno izle Hiç beklemeden sikişe geçen elemanlar hatunları değiştire değiştire sikmeye başlıyorlar.
Patronu aradığında sürekli hasta olduğunu söyleyerek iş yerine yalan söylüyor
porno hikaye Patronu artık bu kadarının gerçek olamayacağını ve rapor görmek istediğini dile getirip telefonu kapatıyor
türbanlı Olgun kadın hemen bilgisayarının başına geçip özel bir doktor buluyor ve onu arayarak evine davet ediyor
porno Muayene için eve gelen doktor olgun kadını muayene ediyor ve hiç bir sıkıntı olmadığını söylüyor
brazzers porno Sarışın ablamız ise iş yerine rapor götürmesi gerektiğini bu yüzden rapor yazmasını istiyor
brazzers porno fakat doktor bunun pek mümkün olmadığını dile getiriyor
sex hikayeleri Daha sonra evli olan bu kahpe doktora iş atarak ona yavşıyor ve istediğini alana kadar durmuyor
Porno İzle Karılarını takas etmek isteyen elemanlar hep birlikte evde buluşuyor
türkçe porno Güzel vakit geçirdikten sonra kızlara isteklerini iletiyorlar ve hatunlarda kocalarının bu isteklerini kabul ediyorlar
seks hikayeleri Hemen ellerine telefonları alan elemanlar karılarına video eşliğinde sakso çektiriyorlar
porno izle Hiç beklemeden sikişe geçen elemanlar hatunları değiştire değiştire sikmeye başlıyorlar.
I literally shouted praise when you talked about Greatness, work being an offering to God, and the James Bashara quote “work without attachment is worship”. Thank you.
Carving out the time to take a listen today. Sounds like much needed inspiration.
This was a fantastic podcast; so important! Grateful to you and Rick!
Absolutely solid conversation. Terri and I listened on our drive home from Canada.
Wound up with a signed copy of Rick’s book about creativity. Now all I need is to get a signed copy of Turning Pro.
2 of my fav dudes!! Bookmarked🙏
I liked hearing Steve talk about relationships with a trusted editor — Shawn, then Diana as exemplars. Steve gives Rubin a comment comparing his process with Thomas Wolfe: “I would just spew a book out.” (Which then made me think about Steve’s thoughts on “covering the canvas.”)
Then thinking how stories/writing sometimes seems to come THROUGH us, and not always FROM us. And how the writer might be thought of more as a MIDWIFE than a MOTHER of their stories. The mother doesn’t have a clear view of her own infant being born. She doesn’t clearly see the form of this new creation until it’s swaddled and presented to her by the midwife. It’s the midwife who might first inform the mother: “You have a baby girl.”
Okay.
So back to Steve’s “Thomas Wolfe” reference — have we talked here about the 2016 film “Genius,” with Colin Firth as Scribner’s editor Max Perkins, and Jude Law as Thomas Wolfe? Such a great depiction of the relationship between these two men, but also about how a writer and editor work together.
On YouTube, you can find scenes from “Genius” stitched together in an eight-minute video. I won’t put a link in here (might get hung up “awaiting moderation”). But in YT, search “Wolfe Perkins Genius Reviewing.” The clip opens with Tom appearing sheepishly at the door of Max’s office. He says, “the new book… I have it.” Max clearly has been waiting, and says with this expectant, hopeful look on his face. “Well… let’s have it!”
Tom has a crew waiting in the hallway, whom he calls to bring in a trunk and three milk crates — stacked full of paper bundles bound in twine, dozens of them. Some pages are typed and some are hand-written. Max first looks confused, then incredulous. “THIS is ‘Of Time and the River’?” he asks Tom.
Max reaches down and hoists one bundle by the knot, examining it like he was holding a dead possum by the tail. Tom looks like he’s preparing for Max to yell at him.
Max just says, “Well done.” Tom exhales like he’d been holding his breath, slumping like someone just hit his Gumby button, and grinning in relief.”
“Now go home and get some sleep and let me read,” Max says.
And then follow the dramatic scenes which show process of working together to make the writer’s story the best it can be. It shows the evolution of one chapter’s scene where a guy falls in love with a woman he sees in a bar. It goes from this heavily overwritten, florid, purple prose — even if it was poetic and not without beauty, through the two of them working over that one passage…
Taking it from bloated and overwritten — to an incisive lightning bolt.
Anyhow… writers and editors.
WOW! I just finished the podcast. Best long lunch break ever. So much here.
One aspect of the podcast reminded me of what a painting mentor said to our group. “At some point, put your brush down and sit on your hands.” I’ve learned that point is not something one can teach. It comes from inside. It applies to many disciplines. I’ve felt it not only in painting but also in writing, gardening, working on our house. Where does the inspiration from within stop and the outside world intrude? That’s the point you must learn to feel.
Thank you Steve and Rick for the inspiration.
I just got to the part where the two of you are talking about art as an offering to God. Is this something you’d be proud to offer? That’s it. That’s everything. That’s the finish line.
Simple, pure, everything.
Thank you so much dear Steve and Rick.
I understand what Rick says about the flow of energy. It knows, and if you find the way, it is there *with* you. The Force in Star Wars touched on it although it was more goddish, like a spiritual essence. But of course its not, it’s as real as you and me. It’s magic derives from its parallelism to our best self, true best self, not best for others.
Now it’s a battle happening in the book I create. I mean, wow, if I had an image of a particular fighting scene in mind, it would be so fake. I always felt that. But no. It’s what Rick says “It’s not about music at all, really. I work in music but the practice is not about music at all.” It’s just energy, our individual energy, that if tackled is capable of creating lightings around its’ movement.
I laughed here:
“What do you attribute it selling right away to?”
“I don’t know. Maybe I had so much bad luck for the previous 52 years of my life that it all kind of -finally the penny came up heads, you know.”
I laughed, of coure, becaue the Energy connected to that. I know the feeling, and as far as today, it’s darkest side.
Now I’m with the energy. Before that, at first I was *on* the energy, then without the energy so I used perfection to offset its demotion, and now I’m with the energy. Simple, all it needs is some effort to sustain it and some flexibility.
I have a strong feeling that I must not stay there for ever. I must circulate like the elements on earth and the universe. Or else I will fail it by the passing of time. But who cares now? I found the last piece and I work on it.
It’s that notion that you are again an amateur, but this time a pro amateur. Exactly that.
My love to you both, Diana, the team, the friends.
I’m writing.